The meaning of logos and other points.
I would like to ask Mr. Heaster how he would react to the following point.
First of all, if we take Jeremiah 9:24 about understanding God in context,
I’m glad to see he cares about context, then we find that it is knowing
the things that God is doing and that one can see by the way God acts
justly something being revealed; but if we move on, I mean our Christian
friend over there only mentioned one verse, but he said there were others
that had the same thoughts, where the context is the same. Romans says
something on this at the end of chapter 11 about how unsearchable God’s
ways are. Now, surely I would appeal to you that if God is infinite and
I am purely a creature then there is going to be a limit to the capacity
with which I am going to be able to understand Him and you may get a little
child that comes back from the edge of the water and says I’ve got the
ocean in my bucket and although it’s true in one sense, in another it
is far from true and the wonderful thing I see about the doctrine of the
Trinity is that it is proved to me that my Bible comes from God in that
it goes beyond something that can be neatly and mathematically put together
in a way that is understandable within the confines of the human intellect.
O.K. Can I answer that?
There are two other points I want to make and then I will sit down. I
would be glad to write to you, Sir, or hear from you as time is short.
But there are two other points.
First, you kept on talking about the meaning of logos as God’s purpose.
Now if you look at the times the word is spoken of, it isn’t just a purpose,
it is a person.
My last comment was that Thomas when he says “my Lord and my God” and
he worships him it’s not just that rarely, as Leslie says, God can be
used of a normal person or that sometimes, somebody will revere or respect
another, but that here you have worship and the name of God going together
and so Jesus doesn’t refute it. The simplest understanding of that verse
is that Jesus acknowledged that here was the true God and there are no
other Gods except the Lord.
Thank you. Well, your first point was, as I said a repetition of what
we’ve just had, that God is a mystery. Now if I may as politely as possible
say that, (I don’t really consider that most of what I said in my first
speech has been answered I am afraid by Mr. Everitt at all. I don’t think
anything much at all has been touched on) to turn round and say it is
all a mystery is a very easy get-out and Christ did say that unto the
true believers “the mystery is revealed” – the revealed mystery. Now,
I do accept that there is as Paul says “a mystery of Godliness” that God
was manifested in the flesh and I am sorry if I give the impression that
we Christadelphians think we know everything. I am not saying that anyone
can fathom the mysteries of God fully as you say, in Romans 11. That is
quite right. But the fact is that one can understand the basic simple
truths of the word of God. That Christ was the Son of God, begotten by
the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary.
Regarding the the meaning of logos and the pronouns in John 1 where it
says the world was made by him, I would firstly point out that
the word “by” “the world was made by him” it can mean “on account
of him, through him, by reason of him”. As Romans 14:14 says “there is
nothing unclean of itself”. In other words, there is nothing
unclean of itself, on account of itself. Well, the fact that a personal
pronoun is used, doesn’t necessarily imply that a person is being spoken
of. There is, as I expect you recognize, a principle in the Scriptures
of personification. In Proverbs 8 wisdom is spoken of as a woman “wisdom
has builded her house, she has hewn out her seven pillars”. Now presumably
neither you nor I believe there is a woman called “wisdom” up in heaven
or on this earth who is doing that – no we accept that that is the principle
of personification. This is what is being used about this logos here in
John 1. Now one can understand that further by the fact that logos in
the Greek is a masculine word and therefore it must take a masculine pronoun,
in the same way as wisdom in Hebrew is a feminine word and it therefore
takes a feminine pronoun. It is no proof in itself of personality. And
so it is with the meaning of logos.
You then said, I was almost pleased to hear, in your third point that
the worship of Christ and the name of God go together. Well, I totally
agree with you. As I have been trying to say, because Christ came in the
name of God, therefore he could receive worship on God’s behalf.
I think that although there are a lot more questions that people would
like to ask, time is pressing we will have to draw a line here.
Right, now are there any questions for Mr. Everitt.