Public Debate on “Are the Miraculous Gifts of the Holy Spirit Possessed today?”
Transcript of a debate with John Liliekas
Saturday 4 March 1989
The Great Hall, University Of Leeds,Leeds, U.K.
For Possession today position: Mr. John Liliekas (Charismatic/
Against possession today position: Mr. Duncan Heaster
Chairman: Mr. Simon Perfitt
Mr. Liliekas’ First Speech
3-2-1 The Need For Miracles
3-2-2 Divine Administration
Mr. Heaster’s First Speech
3-2-3 Charismatic Christians
Mr. Liliekas’ Second Speech
3-2-5 Abuse Of Spirit
Mr. Heaster’s Second Speech
3-2-6 Spirit Gifts Withdrawn
Questions from the Floor
About The Holy Spirit
About Spirit Gifts
Summation by Mr. Liliekas
3-2-9 Gifts Of The
Summation by Mr. Heaster
3-2-10 Humble To
The Word Of God
Chairman’s Concluding Remarks
This Debate arose as a result of the discussions between Duncan
Heaster and John Liliekas on differing doctrinal issues. Consequently,
it was felt a Public Debate concerning the present day possession
of the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit was desirable and would
be of interest to a wide range of people.
Both Duncan Heaster and John Liliekas agree that the Bible is the
Inspired and Infallible Word of God, therefore it formed the basis
for the Debate.
Mr. Liliekas has been asked to provide confirmatory evidence for
three examples he gave during the Debate, as follows:
Reference is made to Baptists in the Philippines raising the dead.
Enquiries have been made of the Baptist Headquarters in London and
also in the Philippines, neither of whom appear to have any knowledge
or records of such claim;
Reference is made to “Bible John”. He was a Glasgow murderer in
1968. The published records do not include any accounts of him endeavouring
to convert anyone; in fact, he was a murderer of female dancers
and was nicknamed “Bible John” because he once quoted from the Bible;
Reference is made to the miraculous cure of a Paisley girl whose
one leg was six inches shorter than the other. Mr. Heaster was invited
to investigate the evidence; so far no verifiable evidence has been
provided and the identity of the person is unknown.
One of the questioners gave a personal testimony of being the subject
of a miraculous cure. This evidence, provided by the lady, was used
by Mr. Liliekas in a further debate with John Allfree on the same
subject, published as a separate transcript, where the matter is
Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen. Welcome to the Debate. First
of all, I would like to introduce our two speakers this evening.
On my right side, your left, Mr. Liliekas, who is going to speak
for the subject this evening “Are the miraculous gifts of the Holy
Spirit possessed today?” and on my left, Mr. Duncan Heaster, who
is going to speak against that proposal.
Before they begin, I will just run through the order for this evening.
The two speakers will be given 25 minutes each for their opening
speeches, then there will be a 10 minute interval for you to go
to the toilet, or whatever, stretch your legs…and after that 10
minutes for each speaker to reply. Then there will be opportunity
for you to ask questions from the floor to the speakers in turn,
10 minutes for each speaker. Now, because we are quite tight on
time this evening, we have to be out by 10 o’clock, I would like
your agreement to keep those questions to questions please and to
keep them as brief as possible.
As the evening is being recorded for the purposes of the transcript.
I will relay your questions back to you in order that they will
be recorded via the mikes at the front, otherwise they might not
appear on the tape recording.
I accept that there is a time and place for most things, everything probably, including personal testimony, but in view of the time, both parties have agreed that we stick to questions this evening to the speakers and not statements about your experiences please.
After the questions, each speaker will be given 10 minutes summing up time.
We will proceed then with asking Mr. Liliekas to talk about, on behalf of the subject, “the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, are they possessed today?” to speak for that motion: Mr. Liliekas.